August 06, 2007


Commentary by CL Fish













AHATA’s connection to Marlene Purcell
and lawyer Antonio Carlo:

Source: ARUBA A.M. DIGITAL NEWS, 12/05/2005

The Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association General Assembly Elects A New Board for AHATA The Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association voted in a new board at its general assembly which took place at the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino. The owner of the Wyndham Aruba Resort Spa & Casino, businessman Alfonso Riveroll, became the new Chairman of the Board for the Association.

Fellow hotelier Ewald Biemans, Bucuti Beach Resort & Tara Suites, became 1st Vice Chair while Warren Stanley, Atlantis Adventure assumed the role of 2nd Vice Chair. Marriott General Manager Rick Zeolla will serve as Treasurer of the Association and Alex Nieuwmeyer, Divi & Tamarijn Beach Resort accepted responsibilities as the board’s Secretary.

Board members voted in are businessman Eduardo de Veer, Renaissance/Meta Corp; Banker Bill Carson, Caribbean Mercantile Bank; hotelier Scott Allen, Hyatt Regency; Director Peter Steinmetz, Aruba Airport Authority; Public Relations official David Smith, Valero Oil Refinery, Lisette Malmberg, De Palm Tours and hotelier Werner Hein, Occidental Resort. The election process was assisted by Dr. Ryan Peterson, Universidad di Aruba, attorney Antonio Carlo and Marlene Purcell, Salamander Holdings under the supervision of consultant Jaap Beaujon. The new board is seen here in the picture with members of the outgoing board and Jorge Pesquera AHATA’s President and CEO.


Marlene Purcell is described as "Aruba's online expert": IFA Defines its Mission Statement. "In a congenial meeting at the home of Aruba’s on-line expert Marlene Purcell, IFA made a successful attempt at defining itself and its reason for being."

Mark Purcell, alias MIP6, makes a game of ridiculing the victim, Natalee Holloway, and her mother Beth Twitty on the internet:

Source: MIP6 on forums October 11, 2005, 06:46 AM

"I figure with my next post I should get the boot, haven’t decided which one to use yet the Beth lies or denouncing the Sainthood of Natalee. I have way too much fun watching them all freak out."

Source: MIP6 on nataleehome.proboards forum July 20, 2007

Mark Purcell believes the victim, Natalee, is to blame for her death: "I think if Natalee is indeed dead she contributed to her demise."

Source: MIP6 on July 23, 2007

Mark Purcell pushing the cocaine story on internet forums: “How about she made it back it the HI, she partied with her friends, one has now admitted to giving her a massive line of cocaine and going swimming with her, except she didn’t return and the other MB’er did, filled with remorse they have spilled their guts.”

Source: CBS 48 HOURS, March 22, 2006

Gerold Dompig puts forth the AHATA cocaine story on CBS News in March, 2006: Wherever she was, police now think that while Natalee was with Joran, she died suddenly from an overdose of intoxicants. “We feel strongly that she probably went into shock or something happened to her system with all this alcohol maybe on top of that other drugs which either she took or they gave her and that she just collapsed,” says Dompig. The crime, Dompig suspects, occurred when the body was illegally disposed of. The boys may have acted alone. “We’re not talking about killers here,” he says.

Asked if he has been able to confirm whether Natalee purchased or consumed illegal narcotics during her stay in Aruba, Dompig says, "We have statements claiming that she, that she had drugs. What kind of drugs? "I cannot say," Dompig replied. Dompig notes that police don't have any proof that Natalee used drugs but "that they saw her with drugs in her possession."

Added: Dompig's source turned out to be his brother-in-law Boeti Nar, a convicted drug dealer who lives on the beach selling drugs in Aruba. Dompig was fired for these accusations and other mishandlings in the case.

Natalee's stepmother says date rape
drugs were used by Van der Sloot:


ROBIN HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY’S STEPMOTHER: "It sounds like they’re trying to say, “Well, she had too much booze, too much drug use, and, as a result, she caused her own death.” I have known Natalee for 13 or 14 years. She is not a drug user. She does not abuse drugs. The only drug we know that she was on at that time was a Z-pac for a sinus infection. If she was drugged, it was because of the last drink Joran gave her …"


A panel of experts debunks
AHATA's cocaine story:

Source: FOX NEWS GERALDO AT LARGE, July 21, 2007

Craig Rivera: "It's important to point out that April 14, 2006 there was an arrest made of a 19 year old acquaintance of Joran van der Sloot and the charge was that he was suspected of selling drugs, probably GHB to Joran and the Kalpoe brothers and it's also suspected that this activity may have involved the disappearance of Natalee Holloway."

Geraldo: "Mark Geragos, what do you think? Obviously no dad wants his daughter to be the engine of foul play but it sounds like Dave is making a lot of sense."

Mark Geragos: "Dave makes the most sense of anybody in this story because if they had anything that suggested that these three had anything to do with giving her cocaine and then disposing of the body, even if they weren't the ones who had given her the cocaine but disposed of the body, they already would have arrested them for accessory after the fact and prosecuted them for that, so I think Dave's got it all right. I don't think that any of this makes any sense. If they have somebody who gave her the cocaine or saw her take the cocaine that person would have been prosecuted."

Janine Pirro: "This is about trashing the victim, we do it all the time. How dare somebody say she died of a cocaine overdose when we don't have her body, nobody can prove that. Date rape drug makes the most sense, Mark you're absolutely right. I believe that's what happened."


"Aruba is still trying to prove to the world it is a safe island that is free from criminal activity. They continue to claim that Ms. Holloway’s death was a tragic accident brought on by her own lack of responsibility when it came to drugs and alcohol. This argument is tantamount to claiming that Pearl Harbor was caused by the irresponsible Navy leaving their ships out in the harbor forcing the well-intentioned Japanese air force to mistake Hawaii for bombing exercises in the Sea of Japan. Natalee Holloway will never be defined as a cocaine user in life or in death despite the Aruba publicity machine and the criminals who oil it."


Anonymous said...

Purcell is just rotten, through and through isn't he?

Are the rumors about his son true? Some billboard or other advertising for Moombas talking about 123 of 124 people love Aruba?

A very thinly veiled reference to Natalee's disappearance.

Guess the apple didn't fall far from that tree!

And now Scared Monkeys has become an open forum. So schmucks like this can have yet another platform from which to spew their venom.

As if BFN wasn't enough..........

Anonymous said...

CL Fish excellent

next commentary


10-13-2005, 01:16 PM

Peter van der Vliet
New Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11

Here is a real kick in the private parts that blows mrs. Twitty right out of the water with all her stories, it is from Rita Cosby on the same night as the Dompig interview:
HOLLOWAY: Well, I was only privileged to one of the statements, and that was read to Beth, Jug, myself, along with two attorneys. And of course, it was in Dutch, and the—one of the attorneys interpreted it. And from what I gathered, this tape indicated to me that Natalee was falling asleep, waking back up, falling asleep, waking back up, and that in my opinion, a sexual assault was occurring at the same time.
His opinion was that there was a sexual assault occuring, not the same as what Beth has been claiming all these months. Beth has put Aruba on the spot for lying, when it seems she is the one who might not be all that truthfull with some of her claims.

Anonymous said...

this should be added to end of the Rammst quot.

Beth has put Aruba on the spot for lying, when it seems she is the one who might not be all that truthfull with some of her claims.

Michelle Says So said...

To all you BLAMERS...F you all.

I'm sick and tired of defending this poor girl who did NOTHING to deserve the fate she got. Especially from a piece of playin' scum like Joran et al. I will not rest until he and his co-horts see their demise. And I can't wait for it to happen. If that sounds like a threat, then so be it. I DON'T CARE ANYMORE.

I'm sick of this shit and I will defend Natalee until THE END. I will defend her until the day I DIE. It happened to me, but I lived...and I will not allow another woman be disparaged like she has by you hideous excuses for human beings.

So, to all of you who write comments here that are blatantly STUPID or RUDE, don't bother exercising your pickled fingers typing your bullshit...I won't post it. You are nothing but the devil's rejects and not worth the dog shit that is on the bottom of my worst pair of shoes.

Michelle Says So said...

THIS IS MY LAST WARNING. Anymore crap about Beth or Natalee will NOT be posted. In fact, I will hunt down your IP and shoot you like the rabid dog you are. Don't FUCK WITH ME.

Anonymous said...

I am very curious and with good reason: WHO (posting nic, anything?) is the C.L. Fish mentioned below the Dummmies graphic of this article (near top). There IS a C. Fish person associated with all this but he is not someone who would remotely be considered pro-Natalee or pro-Family. So, curiosity abounds here?

Michelle Says So said...


I am very curious and with good reason: WHO (posting nic, anything?) is the C.L. Fish mentioned below the Dummmies graphic of this article (near top). There IS a C. Fish person associated with all this but he is not someone who would remotely be considered pro-Natalee or pro-Family. So, curiosity abounds here?

Me: Sorry...I have no idea. I have lots of people that are anonymous that like to use my blog to post their opinions and thoughts. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous curious about CL Fish,


You are saying there is someone involved in this case, but not someone who is likely to have put this commentary together?

Then who?

Someone pro Joran? Or pro Aruba? honor amongst the bad guys?

Wonder what happened?

Rammstein said...

yes, I made that remark after Beth had hooked up with Mannama who kept making the craziest (Joe M. that is) remarks (at least that was my opinion) and I wrote a message that I should not have written, especially not in such a confrontational way and without having all the facts.

I did what I accused Beth Twitty of doing and it was wrong, and I apologize for having written it.

But since that day a lot of my opinions have changed. I added a voice against Beth that I should never have and since then I spoke out against her treatment.

It is fine to disagree with people and I still don't agree with some of what Beth has claimed, but from her I can easily accept that now because she is doing what she is doing out of love and because she deserves to be given a lot of leeway because of the terrible thing that people on Aruba did to her daughter and thus also did to Beth.

So all I can say is that I am sorry for having written that and that I have seen the error of my ways.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Michelle for all you do selflessly do to help bring justice for Natalee Holloway. And thank you for all you to do to assist others in the same quest.

I'm sure you have been bombarded by 'haters' today.

It's ironic -- they only become more 'hateful' when their hate and lies have been exposed.

Thanks again Michelle. I hope you know you have many bloggers, standing shoulder to shoulder with you -- even if only in cyberspace.

You are a blessing.

Anonymous said...

Michelle ... thank you for all you do to support the contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation is denying Natalee Holloway justice ... a corrupt Aruban investigation is protecting the main suspect from implication in the events encompassing the morning when an eighteen year old American citizen went missing on Aruban soil.

I appreciate your uncompromising determination to uphold the cause of justice for Natalee Holloway while at the same time struggling to put distance between yourself and the internet trolls with Aruban agendas ... agendas to erect smokescreens to obscure the truth.




Anonymous said...

Michelle, YOU GO GIRL!!!

Anonymous said...

Michelle, I think you have misunderstood the first two posts here. I believe they were meant to bring back Ramm's own words to bite him. Evidentally he has been given entree into the "sacred cloisters" of Scared Monkeys, the last true bastion of truth for Natalee, along with some of his other notorious cronies.
As BFN has fallen will SM, be soon follow? Are they giving free hand to those "oh so notorious" ones, you know, the click from Aruba, Friends of Robin.
While devoted supporters are fighting tooth and nail to keep the vermin out, much to the dismay of many, it seems that the reality is, the Trolls from BFN have begun their Seizure of SM by dividing and Conquering!!!

There is so much more I could say here regarding the distractions and diversions being implimented in the threads, but seeing is believing..... Go over, and take a look, you judge for yourself!

Michelle Says So said...

To Anonymous and Janet/Tamikosmom:

Thank you for the wonderful comments. I had the WORST DAY EVER and what you said brought me back to reality. LIFE COULD BE WORSE...look at what Beth and Dave are dealing with.

We should all be blessed with what we have and not be so hateful towards innocent bystanders who did NOTHING.

Rammstein said...

outside of forums in open discussion, I have never been in contact with MIP or any Aruban for that matter.

And I am proud to know Robin as many must be proud of knowing Beth.

Anonymous said...


Your apology simply does not ring true with me.

Certainly you are aware that people have an entire collection of your venom?

That "one post" was not the first - nor was it the last made by you in that tone and with that hate in your heart.

You might be able to fool some - but not all of us!

Oh, and nice qualifier Ramm. "outside of forums" uh-huh

"with any Aruban" uh-huh

Reality isn't Aruban, is he?? Purcell isn't Aruban, is he?
Renfro isn't Aruban, is she?

Give me a break!!!!!

Why don't you give us your honest take on the corrupt Dutch judges?

You know, like Smid and Wit?

After all that dedicated contributors here have put forward, are you suddenly going to "see the error" in your ways about them too?

I'm sorry you had a rotten day, and like others have said before me, you are a rock for Natalee and her family. All you do is appreciated.

Anonymous said...

Rammstein sounds and acts like a womanizer. He spoke well of Anita, Karin Jessen, Debee, Robin, Beth and Michelle. Ramm is suspected to be a screen name used by Paulus van der Sloot. Paulus womanised Natalee at the Marriot Casino. Ramm is not an ametir. He is a Dutch student judge. He is far too familar with the Dutch laws on blaming the victims. When looking back at Ramm's BFN postings, you will know him as a hardcore Natalee and Beth hater. Please don't be moved by his tears and appologies. Nobody give him a damn anyway. Just go to hell with the Dutch and Aruba.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said ...Why don't you give us your honest take on the corrupt Dutch judges?


If Natalee had never been in the main house and only possibly have been in the appartement, what reasoning did the police have to search the dwelling where Natalee had never set foot in?

IMHO there have been no improper judicial decisions. All the decisions were made in accordance with law and jurisprudence. The judge may only use as evidence the materials that are presented during trial. If the DA doesn't do what it is supposed to do and present "legal and convincing" evidence then no judge will rule for the prosecution.

Anonymous said...

Great article....kind of makes WHATEVER ramm or these other blowhards say irrlevant...I know Ramm doesnt know any Arubans he hangs out of with Lagtrevees..the treehut boys..

Anonymous said...

There are suggestive ways of calling Beth a liar without outright calling Beth a liar. One way is giving PVDS the benefit of the doubt. RAM, you did that in August of last year. When exactly did you realize the errors of your ways?

2006/03/21 MSNBC - Beth - He had initially told the witnesses that he himself had picked up Joran Van Der Sloot at 4:00 a.m. on the night of the 30th. But he later changed it about three weeks into the investigation that he did not pick up Joran at 4:00 a.m. on the 30th.

2006/08/11 - BFN - RAM - First of all Paul van der Sloot briefly perused through websites, not actually took time to study any of the websites. secondly, Paul may have been working/reading about a case for his job about alcohol/ drugs and young people. third, we all know that Paul was about to be axed from his training/substitute judgeship. He might have looked at the website of a prospective new employer and last but not least WE NOW KNOW THAT PAULUS DID NOT PICK UP JORAN AT 4AM.. At 3.25am he was MSN-talking to Deepak and afterwards he visited several other websites (among other a porn site).

2006/08/09 - BFN - RAM - That was denied by Paul (him ever having said that) and again, Joran was already home at that moment in time. How can he go and pick up a son that is safely sitting at home?

Anonymous said...

My neighbours' sister is a criminal, so she must be scum, too....

Nice to see that you are finally showing your true colours Michelle!

Michelle Says So said...

Excellent observation!

Auntiem said...

Joran was the last person to be seen with Natalee. Joran admits he was the last person he "knows" was with Natalee. Joran was arrested as a suspect....that's why his lies were "PERMISSABLE". Only witnesses are not allowed to lie, suspects may lie, he lied and lied, it was okay..ergo he was a suspect....a Prime Suspect according to Dompeg!!!
He lived in an area of the house adjacent to, but not exclusive to the main house. It was the Family Home Anita states that they were a close family.....Joran slept, showered, had snacks in apt....main meals were taken in the Main House....he not only had complete access to the Main was the Family Home....His home......The polis search warrant issued was for the entire VDS was only "friends" of Paulus, present at the time of the arrival of the polis to exercise the said warrant, (legally obtained) of the ENTIRE home, compound, who unlawfully, illegaglly, intervened, intercepted, the warrant, and limited it to where they KNEW it would be SAFE TO SEARCH. (meaning, no evidence would be found)

That very act, on that very day told us volumes, it immediately implicated Paulus, told us where the terrible crime against Natalee had most likely occured, and in hind site it started to become clear to our naive and law-abiding minds, that all Criminal Justice Systems are not equal....all judges are not descendants of Solomon! There little Sham of getting THREE judges from another island, was just that..a SHAM!!
They have more teflon on them than John Gotti...he got his.....our whole Court System is not corrupt!!!

That said,... my reply was to your post, rammstein,... was EXACTLY that, I am responding to your NON-reply! Your post, again, was not a reply, but your typical diversion.

This was a "Crime Investigation". They did NOT know where on the VDS property Natalee had been...Joran was the suspect...and soon was his old man...they had a warrant....they were looking for evidence....they had a WARRANT FOR SLOOT HOME, WTF are you asking stupid ques. re a warrant, and then going on, ONCE MORE, into an UNREQUESTED LESSON IN DUTCH LAW. ( Which is bogus anyway)

Michelle Says So said...


What are you getting at? Is that supposed to be a "rip"? Since you spelled colors (colours) I'm assuming you aren't American and I don't understand your point.

Anyway, I didn't write the damn article! Take it up with CL Fish.

Anonymous said...

2006/08/05 - BFN - RAM - IMHO there have been no improper judicial decisions. All the decisions were made in accordance with law and jurisprudence. The judge may only use as evidence the materials that are presented during trial. If the DA doesn't do what it is supposed to do and present "legal and convincing" evidence then no judge will rule for the prosecution.

Anonymous said...

RAM, you are not just guilty of personally bashing Beth suggestively or directly in your internet postings but you continually go against her belief that there is a coverup in the investigation.

2006/08/05 - BFN - RAM - In other words a man in a dark uniform was described, not a dark-skinned man. Why the police then arrested 2 dark skinned guards was probably because of their "detective work" and not because the K2 brothers had fingered black coloured men.

2005/12/06 - MSNBC - BETH - Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

2005/06/11 - FOX - "It is likely it may have been a police strategy to let these three men go to gather more information," Ruben Trapenberg, spokesman for the Aruba government, told FOX News Thursday morning. "The three witnesses gave information about the two guys [already in custody] and that is why they were held."

2005/06/05 - FOX - Kock said his client, Satish Kalpoe, and his brother told police they saw a black security guard approach Holloway in the parking lot in front of the hotel lobby before they drove off. "That's why [two former security guards] were detained," Kock told the AP

Anonymous said...

The problem with Ramm is, he did not leave the Dutch laws alone. He tries to fix the Dutch laws by victimizing Natalee. And the KLPD took advantage of Ramm's undoing, and destroyed all the case files and close the case. The FBI will start an investigation into Ramm's criminal activities in South Florida. Did you know that Ramm has a green card. He is a US permanent resident. But he might not have file any income tax returns.

Michelle Says So said...

Please give some supporting proof on that. I'm sick of talking about Ramm not know what is true and what are lies. If anyone has credible information, fine...but provide proof, please.


Anonymous said...

Ramm has a real name called Stanley in WPB. Check the Dutch oil company gas station convenient store. You will find him. His car is a blue BMW.

Auntiem said...

" Beth put Aruba on the spot for lying"??? Lying, is that what you call having your child, your most precious possession, the person nearest and dearest to your heart, ripped out of your arms by a bunch of thugs?? While vacationing, celebrating not only her High School Graduation, but her Full College Scholorship to study Medicine and become a Pediatrician and care for the health and well-being of the future generation, she is kidnapped raped, bludgeoned and murdered? A good, clean, moral girl, Church going, parent loving, Authority respectful girl, the Model of American Young Womanhood, goes away for four days, never to be seen again because she caught the eye of devient, drug toting, molesting, sociopaths.

And Beth should be "admonished" for calling the scum that is in power on Aruba "liars"??

They took her precious child, tortured her, and didn't even have the decency to give her body back to her that they could take her poor, battered body home to a final resting place.

They blatantly refuse to prosecute the KNOWN murderers....the monsters who took this child and treated her far with far less thought than most of us would treat an insect!
It's sick!!! So damn sick!! There is no defense for what Aruba has done!! No excuses!!! No pity if the whole island rots and sinks into the ocean. It would be a Blessing for Mankind!!!

Rammstein said...

- Name Peter van der Vliet

- date of birth 31-08-1968

- born in Vlissingen but later lived in Eindhoven, Veldhoven, Zwijndrecht, Sittard, Heerlen, Hoensbroek, Almere and most of my life in Geleen (which is where I live now)

- education:

nuts-school (not religious school)
St. Michiel
Maurits Mavo
Albert Schweitzer scholengemeenschap
Centrum vakopleiding Logistics

- former jobs:

tempjobs (forklift-truck operator, factory worker, warehouse employee)
salesperson (home and personal electronics)
administrative logistical employee
customs employee (importing
chrysler cars)

- single (always been)

- medically challenged (morbidly obese, asthmatic, facial pains)

- countries visited:

Germany, Italy, Belgium, UK and Austria

- not in the possession of a green card

- former gambling addict

- child of divorced parents

- current occupation is part-time administrative employee for transport company. I welcome back the drivers, check in the money they have and the cars they bring back, make sure their time-sheets and work-sheets are correctly filled out.

- I am a member of no political party, I have not now or ever held political or public functions with governmental bodies of any kind

- I have only been a member of the board of 1 organization, I was a local board member for an organization to help gambling addicts (like the AA but then for gamblers).

- used to be a gambling addict myself, got over it and for 4 years helped others as a councilor

- my legal training, none

- my contact with the legal profession:

once hired a lawyer to sue my father (aged 18) and I briefly knew a girl that was studying law (2 weeks)

- my contacts with Aruba:

none, I don't even know a single aruban

- my contacts with the government:

I pay taxes and I get tax refunds

- other memberships:

I am a member of a union and of nothing else

- I have one cat (aged 14) called Nicky

- I have one sister (married with a newborn child and 2 stepchildren of which 1 lives with her), one brother in law, uncle of three precious children, one mother, no grandparents (grandmother died in the week Natalee went missing), one father (not seen in 26 years), three halfbrothers (seen once in my life at my sisters wedding)

- I have no friends (gambling addicts have no friends, I am very obese and extremely shy)

- I have done none of the things a certain idiot with a very limited English language comprehension keeps on blaming me for. I am a not wealthy, Lancia Y driving (7 years old), unmarried, unhealthy individual who is making the most of his life and trying to get better.

- I don't have secrets and I don't try to make myself out to be anything else then I am, that is the things other people do about me.

- Except bartender in a hard rock cafe, I have never had anything to do with the hospitality industry or the tourism industry

Anymore civil questions and I am willing to answer them if I can.

Anonymous said...

I to am sick of reading about Ramm. Read what the troll posts. And realize he has an agenda and move on. Take what he has to say with a grain of salt. BTW Ramm. How is your super cop doing? Has he brought an end to the corruption in Aruba !!!!!!!

Rammstein said...

I hope the new chief of police is fine and doing his utmost to clean out the aruban pigsty.

He has three years to do so but I sure hope to see some positive results prior to that date.

Auntiem said...

Michelle, spare us this sicko's detaied biography!

We don't ask him for his lectures on Dutch Law......we get them!!!!!

We don't ask for his repeated excuses for the corrupt Aruban judges......we get them.....

We CERTAINLY did not ask for his pathetic life story....yet, it's here.....

I shudder to think what will be here tomorrow...

Michelle Says So said...

I guess he felt compelled to tell everyone. Why? Guilt? I'm not trying to figure him out. I'm not a shrink.

Rammstein said...

Michelle asked for information about me and I provided it. That you don't like it that is your problem Auntiem.

Just trying to dispel the myths that some have been spreading about me.

Anonymous said...

RAM undermines Beth and Jug's claims but Joran's declaration that Ram helped translate tells another story. Beth and Jug do not lie.

2005/10/12 - Usless Knowledge - RAM - But my biggest disbelieve is the story they are telling about the first night, she and her husband Jug claim that Joran took Jug to the side that first night and told him all about what he and Natalee had done the night before, even about the sex etc. Now I may have some faith in some of her claims but this one is totally unbelievable in my eyes. Why would Joran take the father (stepfather but who cares) to the side and confess things he didn't even confess too in hours of intense questioning by gangs of police officers in 12 or 13 hour sessions of questioning?? I am sorry but what Beth, Jug and their friends are claiming was said during that first night, I don't put much stock in their stories/ declarations.

2005/10/04 - CNN - JUG - You know, I asked a question about, I understand that there was a statement made by Joran, where he talks about what he had done to Natalee and he described in very graphic detail, like, the stitching and embroidery and everything on Natalee`s underwear. And he goes, Oh, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Well, little did he know I had just read the statements where Joran describes that to the "T," you know, two days before. But of course, I didn`t tell him that. But that`s just when I started to think something`s wrong here.

2005/10/04 - CNN - BETH - Well, not only did he know specific details about her underclothing, but also just physical descriptions of her.

2005/06/14 - DECLARATION - JORAN - At my house I had talked to a man, I don't know if he was the father. I had told him that from Carlos & Charlies we had dropped her off at the Hotel. I cannot remember telling him that I fingered Natalee.

2005/06/09 - Declaration - JORAN - To your question as to what panty Natalee was wearing, I answer you the following. Natalee wore a dark blue panty. According to me they were embroidered panties and according to me these were flowers.

Rammstein said...

Michelle Says So said...

I guess he felt compelled to tell everyone. Why? Guilt? I'm not trying to figure him out. I'm not a shrink.


actually I posted out of innocence, I have nothing to hide from the world.

Auntiem said...

No Myths, don't flatter yourself. The fact of the matter is you're a Beth Basher from way back and it is well known and will not be forgotton nor forgiven. Why don't you check your driver's lists, take care of your cat, go on Jenny Craig and leave the rest of us to blog in peace. We are trying to SOLVE Natalee's case and we do not need, nor appreciate the likes of you, coming around, with your misinfromation, derailing conversations, deflecting the guilt away from J2K, the Arubans, and whatever whacked out Dutch law they pretend to follow.
Do you think it is not obvious when we are having a discussion, re Natalee, example, her body supposedly found and lost, but how could it NOT have been found if RAPE and HEAVY BATTERY were DETERMINED and charges were filed against Guido....another ridiculous person? what about Joran? Paulus? When did Guido come into the picture? Natalee was never seen with him....yet HE is the ONE to be charged with HEAVY BATTERY and RAPE??? And where's "The rest of the story/...." NO THAT DISCUSSION WAS DERAILED, BY YOU!!!!! Some big quote from previous pages and then a bunch of your so-called Dutch legalese... Telling me, the Announcement of Natalee being found was a rumor!!!!! Maybe not all caught on to your derailment there, I did, so did others!!!

It was NOT a rumor!!!!!She was found. And I saw Beth, crumpling in devastation, while the brutal Aruban monsters were planning their next crime, taking away the only thing left......the only part of Beth's precious child that was left to take back to Alabama and bury with love and grief....they would not even give Beth that......WHY, WHY........What evil exists in some people that allows them to inflict such monsterous pain upon other human beings,'s unfathonable the cruelty doled out
upon one innocent girl and then to continue to be inflicted time and again upon her grieving mother?
Oh, but they could not let her body, Natalee's poor, battered, abused body be seen or taken by her loving parents. The crime, the criminals, would become apparent...autopsy and DNA would have ascertained the monsters identity.....and Aruba Tourism would suffer....retraction....No Body, No Crime.........

Michelle Says So said...

Wow...Auntiem, I don't want to mess with you! If I am missing, please be on my side. :)

You are one passionate woman and I respect outspoken women...maybe because I am one myself? (duh...obvious of course!)

I want to thank you for supporting the boycott and hanging in there for over two years.

(Along with the rest who come here! I forget NO ONE.)

We've got more tourist conventions to "crash"...we are not going away. I've always said from day one when i started this grassroots boycott that the PEOPLE are the ones with the power. Not the government. If all the "ants" come together they can over-take the "queen bee". That is exactly what we've been doing and will continue to do.

Never underestimate the power of principle and passion in large groups. (However, we are small "groups" or "cells" all over the country...even in Canada and the UK.)

I'd like to think of this grassroots boycott like a nasty case of herpes to the island of Aruba.

Are ya burnin' yet Aruba? We all know the Netherlands are...they've been infected since they started the slave trade and executed their own jewish citizens in WWII.

Anonymous said...

Just say no to Ramm. He has been trying to derail the justice for Natalee. Ramm doesn't understand woman's emotions and love. And he can't find love, and then he hates Natalee for her being such an ideal beautiful American girl. Ramm's mind and soul are just as complex and self defeating as Joran. No woman can love him for his transgressions.

Anonymous said...


Thank you for your compassion and dedication
to Natalee Holloway.


Anonymous said...

Michelle, I hope you will post this:

Ramm, not very smart, but very brave to post all that! After all the abuse you are getting here, I can certainly understand why you did it!

For the rest of you, if you only had one ounce of Ramm's dignity you would already be a better person.

Michelle Says So said...

As you know, Ramm and myself aren't exactly friends. However, I agree with your post regarding him spilling his guts about his life (I felt it was I sound like Greta now? ha ha!)

I can say that even though we disagree and are pretty much each other's "nemesis", I will give him props for letting it all out, because I know that I'd never do it.

Anonymous said...

Michelle, I applaud all your efforts. Thank you for all you have done over the past two years!!!

Michelle Says So said...

You are sweet. At least I know this is not all in vain.

I seriously appreciate you guys that come and read...keeping the fire going.

Anonymous said...

Michelle, are you really a very pretty blonde woman. A lot of guys got to dream about you. ArubanBoycott is your call name. You have gained so much attentions. Many woman bloggers are jealous of you. But we know you are sincere in helping Natalee get her justice. That's all that matter. You are able to break up the Old Boys Network with Ramm's tip bits of insider knowledge. This is your big success story. It's fair and balanced that you let Ramm and listen to his feelings about you and his problems. You are a magnet that draws hearts and minds of some specially gifted men.

Michelle Says So said...

I hope that wasn't supposed to be a sarcastic dig on me...

Boycott Aruba said...

Michelle is The Bomb!!

She's feisty and is not shy about speaking her mind. A Natalee supporter she is and has been for two years.

Keep on truckin my friend.

Get er Done

Boycott Aruba
Justice For Natalee

Auntiem said...

Ya got me on that last post....Sarcastic dig or very confused person.....or just another "toot' on the railroad of derailment. Sounds bizarre re "gifted men", especially because no names were mentioned. He was right about one thing, you are a very pretty blonde, the rest is either trash or giberish!

Anonymous said...

Put the violins away. Stop praising him for doing the right thing. Ramm is still a troll. He is a mountain of misinfomation. He's no friend of anyone who posts here. He's a troll first and foremost. And Michelle, I to was wondering. If that was a sarcastic dig?

Anonymous said...

RAM, you are a PVDS apologist through and through. PVDS was a replacement judge and a parent. He had a responsibility not to abet his son in activities that were illegal under Dutch law.

2006/08/16 - BFN - RAM - yes, he got permission to play poker, a poker tournament (free poker tournament). He wasn't allowed (from what I have heard) to gamble with real money, just poker in the free tournaments

2006/04/06 - MSNBC - John Q. Kelly - And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process. You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened. ... And it turns out that Paulus, you know, got him into casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

2007/07/23 - DANA PRETZER - Jossy Mansur -

Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot. Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy: No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months, I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

wingnut said...

Wow - reading at SM is deja vu. It feels just like BFN did about a year ago. Please don't let Ramm take over your site as well, Michelle. It is now one of the very few sites that put NATALEE'S best interests above feeding the trolls.

You are an amazing woman, Michelle. You have spoken the truth for over 2 years now, and don't care if toes get stepped on along the way. I admire your gutsy persistence.

Thank you!

Anonymous said...

I do not trust Ramm's accuracy
in explaining Dutch law.

Michelle Says So said...

I agree. You can't trust anyone in this case as it is!